Curse

Skuld · Jun 18, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alderin

Please, when reporting the responses, make sure to include which ones are from PvPist and PvEist for these PvE only skills. These skills are are NOT required to for use so noone is forced to take them and ones like the Assassin's "Critical Agility" is a lot of fun so please try to keep the devs from destroying skills for those claiming balance when PvE is not their main area of choice in Guild Wars.

What are you talking about? Why would PvP players care? Personally, as a PvP player, I am glad of the introduction of these skills, as it means we can get our side of the game sorted out without upsetting PvErs as much.

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 18, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo33

But Ether Nightmare looks like it'd make Memsers simply amazing. -7 health degen to a large group of foes would make them someone I'd want on my team.

Or you can just get an SF ele on your team......Ether nightmare is a waste.

Apollo33 · Jun 18, 2007, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

my suggestion for faction skills was to make them purchasable in the end-game area where you get an amulet of the mists (3k faction for em is perfectly fine), and then make them gain power based on how many missions you have gotten masters on. theres 12 ranks of allegiance titles, and 12 factions missions, so the scaling should be easy to convert.

I can't believe I missed this post... This is WAY better than any of my ideas for "fixing" the Allegiance rank thing.

ANet should return Allegiance rank to how it was, only rewarding points for DONATIONS not for amber/jade/scrolls. This would make many guilds very happy.

Tie the skills to the Protector track... It'd encourage people that've beaten the missions in normal mode to then use their new skills in hard mode. More people doing hard mode is always good. It also encourages people to finish the normal mode missions again with their other characters.

Although, perhaps ANet tried to put the skills under Allegiance for other reasons... Like trying to get people to AB or something. I'll probably never AB, simply due to the fact that I don't really care for PvP. About as much PvP as I'll do is Fort Aspenwood...

Scarlett Romanov · Jun 18, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo33

Seriously, how were the Faction skills supposed to help Mesmers in PvE if they require so much grinding to make them effective? What happened to the "Mesmers will be buffed with PvE skills! Just you wait and see!" Cry of Pain looks like a great skill. (I haven't played with my Mesmer much yet, so I don't know all that much about them.) But Ether Nightmare looks like it'd make Memsers simply amazing. -7 health degen to a large group of foes would make them someone I'd want on my team.

I agree. Ether Nightmare sounds like it would be fun to play with, but alas I don't have my Kurzick/Luxon titles maxed out. (I don't even have the first rank. X_X) The problem seems to be the rank requirements to use the Luxon/Kurzick skills. It would be nice if the title was adjusted to a more reasonable obtainable level. It took me six hours to max out my Sunspear title. (That's starting from Rank 6.) I think the Kurzick/Luxon titles should take the same amount of time. It looks like they'd currently take way too long to obtain.

If they're unwilling to change that, then perhaps they should setup a weekend in which we gain a lot (and I mean a hell of a lot) of faction points from doing things in Cantha.

Also, they could also make it so that our titles show the amount of faction we've earned instead of the amount of we've spent donating to Factions.

Totally unrelated, but Ether Nightmare really looks like it needs a better recharge time. 25 seconds is a bit ridiculous.

Apollo33 · Jun 18, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Or you can just get an SF ele on your team......Ether nightmare is a waste.

But wouldn't Cry of Pain at max Sunspear do almost as much damage as SF (provided the foe was suffering from a Mesmer Hex)? And yet, it'd interrupt too if the opponent was using a skill. Granted, with Intensity... SF would be even more powerful. Then again, the Mesmer could be half-Ele and use it too.

Skuld · Jun 18, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo33

But wouldn't Cry of Pain at max Sunspear do almost as much damage as SF (provided the foe was suffering from a Mesmer Hex)? And yet, it'd interrupt too if the opponent was using a skill. Granted, with Intensity... SF would be even more powerful. Then again, the Mesmer could be half-Ele and use it too.

Cry of Pain is very conditional and has 10 times the recharge of Searing Flames.

Trouveur · Jun 18, 2007, 09:39 AM // 09:39

I think that theses PvE only skills need some tweakings. Some are too overpowered, and others are too weak.

If one of the purposes of theses skills is to help unwanted classes find a group in PvE, then the possibility tu use them on secondary profession need to be weakened (but not necessary forbidden).

All theses skills should need some attribute points to be used, that way primary class could use them better than secondary.

So I would suggest that the power of theses PvE skills rely on two factors : rank in the appropriate title, and rank in the primary attribute. That would still allow secondary class to use them to some extend, but would also make primary class more suited to use them.

I will now comment about the mesmer's ones.

Currently they are not very good. And worse, one of them is not very mesmerish.

Mesmers asked for improvements yes, but they never asked for becoming ele nukers wannabe.

Giving use a Spiritual Pain bis was a bad move. It is a good nuke, but still less powerful that the ele nukes, meaning that ele will still be prefered for this role.

What is the biggest complaint from the PvE mesmers ? That most of their spells affect only one target, whereas PvE is all about AoE.

So I would suggest to replace completely Cry of Pain with a new skill, like this :

A signet, A mantra or an enchantment, wich will allow our next non elite mesmer hexes (numbers of hexes affected based on rank in Fast cast line) to affect all foes adjacent/nearby/in the area (AoE affected by sunspear rank).

That way mesmers will still be able to do mesmer things (notably punishments), but like the necro will be more suited for the PvE because of these new ability to affect an AoE.

AoE Empathy or Backfire will be far better in PvE than an almost (the condition is so easily met) unconditional armor ignoring damage nuke every 20 seconds, and will be far more mesmerish too.

As for Ether Nightmare, currently it is a joke.

A spell that lasts 20 seconds, have a cast time of 3 seconds and a recharge time of 25, just to put at max title (which need many grind) AoE -7 degen is ridiculous.

Searing Flames is far better, same degen, recharge faster, cast faster, and do direct damage on top !

Yes SF is an elite, but most of the PvE only skills are better than elite skills.

Why take a mesmer with Ether Nightmare in PUG when you already have a SF ele ? Just to put -3 degen half the time on top of the permanent -7 from SF ?

I would change this hex so that it is casted faster, have a lower recharge time, and more importantly so that it works like Spectral Agony (doing direct damage per second instead of degen):

making the foes lose 4...48 Health each second (4 health points lost for each title rank), instead of just old degen, so that it can stack with normal degen (and so it isn't render useless by SF).

Points in fast cast would increased its duration too.

ReiNaruto · Jun 18, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

And another thing...

Why do you hate so much rangers?

Triple shot? Non-elite RaO? :S

prism2525 · Jun 18, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

about the paragon skill, you need 15E every 10 seconds to keep it up. With the SR nerf even necros won't have an easy time doing that. I, on my ele, with around 80+ energy still have trouble b/c don't forget I have to spam my other 7 skills too.

Warrior, Necro, Ranger and mesmer need a buff... badly.

Cass · Jun 18, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

That was the impression I got when I picked up these skills as well. That they were going to be 'fun' for their ability to mindlessly destroy everything, but all they're ultimately destroying is any depth left in the PvE experience.

If these are the vision A.Net has for the future of Guild Wars PvE, I want nothing to do with it.

Peace,
-CxE

Emphasis mine. I was skeptical about the PvE-only skills from the start. The current implementation with the tie-in to massive grind is the worst case scenario turned reality.

Fact is, there is nothing left to do now but grind SS rank (wurms wow, talk about a shallow game experience) and Kurz/Lux faction (doorkeeper lfg?). Why should you even focus on anything else? These new skills will be the default standard for any sort of challenging enterprise in PvE, without them (and at high lvl), you can't be taken serious anymore.

Also AGAIN Anet has deemed it necessary to reward one of the POOREST of accomplishments in their game: Kurz/Lux titles. These were ridiculous from the start, with the blatant FFF farming exploit that is still the fastest way of getting faction. Those who have mindlessly grinded this exploit now get insane skills. No need to spec attribute points. No need to spend an elite skill slot. Better results than from any other skill, elites included. Can you spell no-brainer?

Hey, by the way, GREAT JOB on making the mesmer so very much more efficient in PvE. That sunspear skill is so awesome. Some AoE damage if you interrupt a skill on one foe, every 20 secs. Could you be more overpowered? /sarcasm

The introduction of these skills has pretty much killed my interest in PvE. I don't say this lightly and I have considerable time spent in PvE. I PvP a lot as well, but I am not sure this alone can hold my interest. Not with the state of HA atm, not with the joke that is RA/TA, and not with the highly over-rewarded botfest hero battles.

So is this mindless grinding what players want? I know that there are many who go to great lengths and do many boring things for a little show, i.e., a title (hell, I have GMC titles myself), but is this now going to be the center of GW PvE? This doesn't even cater to casual players. It certainly doesn't appeal to an oldtimer like me. Are there really so many veterans who love grind like this?

Trouveur · Jun 18, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

about the paragon skill, you need 15E every 10 seconds to keep it up. With the SR nerf even necros won't have an easy time doing that. I, on my ele, with around 80+ energy still have trouble b/c don't forget I have to spam my other 7 skills too.

A necro with SR and Signet of lost Soul can easily spam the paragon's skill.

Same for an ele with SF + Glowing Gaze + Glyph of lesser Energy.

Patrick Smit · Jun 18, 2007, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouveur

A necro with SR and Signet of lost Soul can easily spam the paragon's skill.

Same for an ele with SF + Glowing Gaze + Glyph of lesser Energy.

Nah A necro should be spamming his spells, and not the skills he is less efficient in. Be fair if he devotes energy to this skill, then that spent energy wont go into offense. What if you are fighting just a few monsters and deaths do not come quickly enough? The necro would cripple himself, either not being able to spam hexes or not being able to shout anymore. The paragon just creates energy by shouting adrenaline based shouts. Don't try to improve on something that is just made for it.

Trouveur · Jun 18, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

If a necro can spam Arcane Echo + Spiteful Spirit, it then can spam "There's Nothing to Fear!" + Spiteful Spirit.

Necro should stop whining as if there energy management was bad. It is one of the best of all classes in GW.

Pandora's box · Jun 18, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

If its for PvE only skills I would recommend a wide variety of skills, from sublte combinations to brute force. Its up to the player how to use it. No balancing issues anymore if its for PvE only skills!

seut · Jun 18, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

iddqd + noclip
those skills are the easy way out for Anet's designers who apparently can't design challenging PvE without stupid environment effects and power creep mobs

how to balance?
tie them to primary attributes, not to grind titles (or scale the gain logarithmic instead of linear ->more gain from lower ranks, only tiny increase in the upper ranks)

edit:
Selfless Spirit - 60s recharge is too long for an easily stripped enchant, reduce duration & recharge

Warrior Of The Toon · Jun 18, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

3 Things I would do:

1 - Give the rangers a decent skill which works on its own, ie doesn't need another skill or two to make it even vaguely effective
2 - Make the skills primary only
3 - Fix the Allegiance skills to be effective without months of grind...

QoH · Jun 18, 2007, 12:09 PM // 12:09

1.do NOT make SS skills primary only
2.Allow only one SS skill on the skillbar

Evilsod · Jun 18, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Yeah these skills are making things a little too straight forward. There's Nothing to Fear is way too overpowered, my Ranger and a Necro friend have no problems chaining it for unlimited coverage and still been able to use the build properly.

Making it primary profession just destroys synergy... the problem is these skills should've been on par with that of an elite (or slightly less) in non-elite form. Things like Theres Nothing to Fear far surpasses Incoming. Thats where the problem lies. Triple Shot barely surpasses Dual Shot. Necrosis is far better than Discord. Intensity is just ridiculous.

Tbh the most balanced skill they added is Spear of Fury.

kradens · Jun 18, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

for all those people who actually love their new skills.....

please Anet. dont nerf these skills.

i can finally stand a chance in HM now. and my mesmer/dervish/ranger/assasin have suddenly found some use.

LONGA · Jun 18, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

My though on the Luxon/Kurzick skill.

Maybe increase the Factions point limit cap and remove factions point reduction of the opposite faction and lets the skill tie on factions point instead of factions title

Or give more option on trading the factions to others benefit like a portable buff items.Because now amber and jade are abundant on the material trader.